Yellowstone Cedes to Snowmobilers
By Rocky Thompson on November 29th, 2007
We gave these people The South, now they want Yellowstone, too? Can’t they build some kind of synthetic snow down in Alabama and just stay there instead of heading north or west? Snowmobile travel in Yellowstone National Park will be open to 540 loud-mouth idiots with rebel flag stickers on their trucks beginning next winter.
Bill Wade of the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees said the decision ignored science and was not good for the park, the park system and the American people.
via AP
can the term “gaper” be applied to snowmobilers now?
I sure hope they enjoy their time in the snow. Additional use of the park and snowmobiles in general all adds up to less of it in the future.
Damn hicks. I’m showing up at your doorstep to say thank you when we have to hang up our powder skis even earlier. Thanks for helping out.
Here I am again, finding myself blown away for your cynical, uneducated approach to a topic. First, I’m from Montana…about an hour away from the park. Second…I DO NOT snowmobile, nor do I have any interest – so you can’t tag me. What blows me away this time is your ‘redneck’ Google link and the association it makes. Your comment of “…loud-mouth idiots with rebel flag stickers….” is so rude and short-sighted that I’ve decided to stop reading The Goat simply because you’re not educated enough to deserve my time. For the record, and average of 8,000 to 10,000 people PER DAY visit the park in the summer…540 people on a winter day aren’t disturbing anything but the nerves of hyper-conservationists who live in some big city and think they know what nature is all about because they hiked through the Red Woods once and then felt motivated to become ‘an activist’. Another number gave for you…Yellowstone covers more than 2,200,000 (yes, 2 million+)…do the math on the amount of impact 540 people could have on this massive space. Rather nominal, if you use your head.
I’m just not satisfied that you’re smart enough to put two-and-two together….so I’ll do it for you, visually:
Summer = 10,000/day
Winter = 540/day
540 people in…
2,219,789 acres
On a side note, I know plenty of professional, educated Northwestern US snowmobilers who’d kick your ass up and down for your comments in this blog post. You’ve lost one reader and I plan to share your slander and ignorance with as many people as I can….maybe your boss will high-five you and buy you a beer. Then you can both feel like cool, indie outdoorsy-types who sure know how to talk shit about something you know nothing about. I’ve always enjoyed the gear and videos on The Goat, but you’re mouth is just too much for me to handle anymore. If it were a personal blog, then I’d understand. But you’re representing a professional organization…I wish you’d act like it. It just makes me think everyone at BackCountry is an idiot if they let you get away with this kind of shit….repeatedly.
Did you even read the article? Numbers are going down from 720 to 540 people a day, who is that a victory for? Yet you act like snowmobile entrance is just beginning. Maybe we should put it back to 1400 a day?
A reader from the South
Oh and since we are ok with juvenile stereotypes, stay away from our women. And come down here so one of us can kick your “yankee” butt.
Oh Snap, someone’s screws are wound a bit tight.
Rocky your a bad man bad bad bad and should hang your head in shame.
I agree with rouge-o-matic…
Your rant was unprofessional and uninformed!
1990’s over 1400 snowmobilers
06/07 & 07/08 limited to 720 snomobilers
08/09 limited to 540 snomobilers
If your complaint is the number of snomobilers allowed in the park, then you should be happy that it is going down.
If you just wanted to rant and insult people with your asinine opinion, JOB WELL DONE.
Your assertion that these 720 snowmobilers are “Hicks” that will ruin the park is just absurd. These are guided tours of average americans from all walks of life that want to experience the winter beauty of the park from a fun and unique vantage point (on a snowmobile).
whoa dude, chill the fuck out. I am just as cynical as Rocky and that’s honestly what keeps me coming back to this blog, it adds personality. The hypocrisy of your generalizations and complete overreaction to the post is ridiculous, not to mention how you failed to acknowledge the pollution caused by two-stroke engines and the ethics of snowmobiles in a park in the first place. I realize that the pollution issue is being addressed but the pertinent laws have not taken full effect yet and of course it will not change anything about older snowmobiles. I also do not understand how one snowmobile is comparable to one person in the park.
but hey, screw it, you don’t read this blog anymore so no response is really needed.
The Goat is right on this one, snowmobilers are white trash. I cant wait for new administration.
rouge-o-matic is spot on, and he/she has a right to be pissed. A lot of what the Goat writes is tongue in cheek and should be taken that way. I can tolerate the red-neck reference as tongue in cheek, but this story is misleading. It gives the impression that snowmobiles in the park is new and has not been the norm. The story could have been written from the perspective that people who enjoy the outdoors had a great victory in keeping the park open for the use of the public. He could have used a quote from someone who was overjoyed by being able to continue visiting the park in the winter, on a snowmobile, as they have for decades. Instead, we get a quote from the coalition of national park service retirees. A group representing people that those of us born and raised out here refer to as “the overeducated and otherwise unempolyable”. Aren’t these the same people who were complaining that too many Americans were offering to volunteer to do for free what park service employees were being paid to do? Yellowstone is one of the battlegrounds between regular people trying to continue to enjoy the outdoors, and elitists who will only tolerate their chosen pusuits and want to deny everyone else. I spend quite a number of days a year in the mountains of Colorado in hiking boots or on skinny skis, and manage to do it without being offended by others who are also enjoying the outdoors.
I also did the Yellowstone in winter on a snowmobile “thing” a number of years ago and had a wonderful time, I highly recommend it.
“GOD BLESS AMERICA” freedom of speech rules. I for one will not be going to Yellowstone now that there will be a bunch of Taylor Hicks running around.
Since everyone else complained about the second half of the post, I’ll go ahead and comment on the regional bias of the first. To begin no one in Alabama owns a snowmobile. It would be safe to say that less than half the state has ever seen one. To say that Yellowstone will be over run by mouthbreathers from Alabama because snowmobiles are allowed is misleading. Native mouthbreathers are plentiful and imports would not be required. Lastly to become mad at southerners for heading west and screwing up the scenery is typical of those who move from the midwest or atlantic coast and want to be the last to do so.
ahhh, the oppressed redneck on his quest against “elitism”. funny. as if there aren’t billions and billions of acres outside of yellowstone for you to enjoy. can’t leave something alone?
Snow bicycles are not allowed in Yellowstone in winter thanks to a law which outlaws wheeled vehicles.
Ah yes the West is the BEST! but the gov’t just can’t get it right.
-D
If the blog did not piss people off it would not be worth reading. You either love it or hate no squishy middle that makes things worth while. This is Rocky’s personal opinion which he has a right to. Rouge-O-Matic you are smart and I know you won’t spend your time driving a hate bus for Rocky’s benefit.
Thanks for the “Hicks” link. Orville Hicks is rad, but you wouldn’t know anything about that.
Rocky, I’d like to propose adding some adjective label options your posts. Adjectives like “Offensive” and “Negative” maybe. You could add these to the already existing labels and make “Offensive” “Gear” or “Negative” “Story”. You could even add “Positive” for the times when your not feeling well, and “tough-in-cheek” to keep a count of all your posts. This way people can follow along and filter down to the kind of posts they want to read from you. What do you think?
None of the folks I know in western MN who own snowmobiles have rebel flags, but they do all LOVE NASCAR….hmmm now I’m confused…
Rouge-o-matic-
I think your visitor stats were misleading, but it’s hard to discern what impact in particular you’re talking about. Snowmobiles can hold more than one person, so 540 is a low estimate, and cars hold multiple people, so it’s difficult to guess how many of those people are riding w/more than one person or on a tour bus etc. So on one hand you’re comparing vehicles, and the other you’re comparing people. You also fail to mention any of the park run vehicles or the fact that the road from Mammoth to Cooke City is open, in your estimate of 540. The capacity of the Yellowstone ecosystem to handle the air pollutants is different during the winter months as well. Consider during the peak there were around 1,400 snowmobiles per day (still significantly less than the [high] 10,000 summer estimate you gave) and the air quality was horrible. Granted there were more 2-stroke engines used then, but 4 strokes still pollute.
Just as you’re tired of big city armchair hyper-activists, I’m tired of the snowmobile lobby who think the park is there for snowmobiling and that nothing should prevent them from expressing their ‘freedom’. If they want to ride on a snowmobile for the hell of it, they should do it on their property. The National Parks/Forests, aren’t theirs, they’re everyone’s, they need to treat them with respect. They weren’t, so the NPS had to step in (imagine if we didn’t have a tool in the white house). If you go into a public library you don’t shout and throw books on the floor. If you did you’d be removed.
Rocky is dead wrong in his characterization of the people though. This is straight from the 2005 NPS winter use survey:
“In terms of demographics, winter visitors to the two parks [YNP, & Grand Teton] are relatively more educated and wealthy than the general population. The majority of visitors to both parks are from Western states.”
It’s just a blog though, if it makes you that upset, it’s probably good that you don’t read it anymore.
Attn Mouthbreathing boneheads: Rocky’s annoyance stems from the fact that snowmobiles are allowed at all. If you think Snowmobile == Person in impact terms you’re probably dumb enough to own one. “Waaah, not all snowmobilers are mouthbreathing rednecks!” Nope, just most of them. Keep up the good work, Rocky. Snowmobiling in Yellowstone is stupid for the same reason monster-trucking is stupid in Yellowstone.
Keep snowmobiles out of the Park!
This reminds me of a thread about alpine climbing with dogs I read on another website. Some people hated seeing dogs in the mountains, they poop and bite and chase people and wildlife. Others really enjoy the companionship of a dog in the backcountry. Obviously snowmobiles are just as controversial. Regardless of my personal outdoor persuits, when it takes place on public land I expect to find the “public” there, doing whatever it is they do. At least in Washington and Oregon, many sno-parks are supported/maintained in part by snowmobile clubs. I don’t have a snowmobile, but I appreciate using the sno-parks for my chosen activities. The only way public land works - the only way you get federal, state, etc. funding for public lands is because parks and forests are open to the public and the very diverse types of activities that people participate in. We don’t all have to like each other, but we do have to get along because every American has a claim to public lands, not just particular user groups. Thanks Rocky for another post worth talking about.
Speaking of loud-mouth idiots …
Nice work placing blame on the South for snowmobiling. We really appreciate your hateful stereotyping as well. We dumb hicks can always use more that.
There are women in the South? Man, its a political year, let Rocky have some fun! I thought rednecks were called Crimson Napes! Same idiots that snowmobile in semi pristine areas that ruin local beaches with giant trucks, couches left behind, fire pits with nails. Ever see the stats on how many avalanche victims are snowmobilers? Rocky for President!
Great thread. Nothing wrong with getting people excited. Bumpkin makes a good point. People in the south don’t own snowmobiles. Trust me, I live in the south and it doesn’t snow down here. Really. I promise.
Rocky, have a great weekend. Regardless of what has been said, your blog is still worth checking out many times a day. Have a great weekend.
One little note, “Rocky.”
The South was never yours to give. It’s been ours all along. To claim otherwise is the least humorous, or “tongue in cheek” element of your little POS.
What’s a “snowmobile?”
Goobs,
Yours all along? Umm… how does it feel to live in a conquered nation?
i think it’s hilarious when people resort to threats such as “kick your ass up and down” on an anonymous message board. you must live a miserable life.
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I would like to point out to everyone, that despite which side of this topic you find yourself on, the scientific findings of the EPA cannot be denied. Here is a quote from the Congressional Research Service report
“In one hour, a typical snowmobile emits as much hydrocarbon as a 2001 model automobile emits in 24,300 miles of driving. In a day of use, a snowmobile may emit as much hydrocarbon as an automobile emits in 8-10 years of operation. Snowmobiles also emit as much carbon monoxide in an hour as a 2001 model auto does in 1,520 miles of driving.”
I grew up in Cody, Wy - the east gate community for Yellowstone. Generalizations are tricky things, but pretty much I found that the sledheads who ride around the Yellowstone area have less concern for the well-being of the park than the average outdoors enthusiast.
There are two main components that make up the argument against snowmobiles - pollution and stress on the wildlife. Snowmobilers have no one to blame but themselves for the pollution issue - snowmobiles are horrible in this respect. Unfortunately, there has never been consistent demand for cleaner machines until the government forced the issue, and even now low-emission snowmobiles barely sell. The net effect in Yellowstone is a gross haze over the trail during winter inversion events. Both times that I have skied into the park in the winter, I hit long stretches where I just smelled exhaust instead of fresh air.
The other issue is the stress the noise of the machines cause wildlife during a time when they are low on energy reserves. Stressing the wildlife can lead to significant mortality - something that everyone who climbs ice in the nearby South Fork area is well aware of, as the forest service enforces a strict policy of maintaining distance from the bighorn sheep in that area.
And one other thing - look at the comments in this thread. Sorry southerners, but the mis-characterization worked to get people talking.
As a Southerner, I take offense in you assuming we are all red necks (actually a term for patriots in WV). I’ve been on a guided tour of Yellowstone in winter, and I could see no impact from my use. The snow coaches cause more problems than snow mobiles.
This was my first and last read of your blog.
Parks are for the people, and we should not prevent us from using them. The only practical way to see the park is on snowmobile. The animals in Yellowstone are used to the noise!
Burn the damn park down…turn it into a giant gun range…screw the buffalo.
Maybe if you’re not happy with the results of manifest destiny, you should leave everything West of the Appalachian Mountains alone. Why are you even living out there? Eliminate your carbon footprint by removing yourself from the gene pool, hypocrite.
wow, dave. the mindset you so eloquently described totally helps reframe rocky’s perception of southerners! i’m so glad you posted! pointing out the invisibility of carbon monoxide by mentioning how you couldn’t see any impact from your use is an often overlooked phenomena. clearly, the EPA findings on snowmobile pollution should be ignored. our eyes can’t see the pollution, so what’s the point? and yellowstone’s fragile ecosystem? can’t see that either. snowmobiles must, therefore, have a smaller impact than most people think!
i, like you, look forward to the invention of skis and snowshoes, which will provide us with another practical way to see the park. because you’re right, the parks are for “the people”, not the animals or the earth, and “we” should not prevent “us” from using them, especially since our eyes can’t even see the impacts of our usage!
speaking of the animals, i’m most impressed, however, by your ability to communicate with them! its amazing that they were able to tell you that they don’t mind the noise! such a relief!
thanks again for your well-reasoned and deeply thought-out post. i know your grandchildren will thank you for your contributions some day.